924Board.org

rat · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:07 am Post subject:

Have a look at http://www.wreckedexotics.com/924/924_20030228_001.shtml

Multiple impacts at a fair rate of knots. Still the passenger compartment looks for the most part intact, and to me looks like the car in that picture was unlucky to have sustained as much damage as it did - side impact all on one of the weaker points. The front shows the crumpling ability, while the engine and shell layout should prevent the footwells being intruded into.. Rear again has crumpled nicely, but the transaxle and torque tube should act as a rigid reinforcement preventing too much intrusion.

Is your car the sun roof or non model? Ive heard tell that the sun roof cars have extra reinforcement to cope with the removal of the solid panel, to the extent they are actually stronger. Anyone have any confirmation on this?

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

I've heard that as well, seems logical. North American cars also had side impact steel bars installed in the doors.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

Mikri184 · Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Posts: 746 Location: Ferndale, WA

No matter what you choose, You and your dad so hook up with the local PCA, for a few bucks a month you can attend Drivers Ed or Autocross. Not only will you learn to drive and handle your fine automobile. But you and your dad should have alot of fun, these events or easy going and the people are always great. Never had any problems chatting with anyone, wether they drove a GT3 or an old 914. Everyone one is out to have fun.
If you dont live close to any PCA events start looking for other clubs like scca. Learning how to drive your car, will increase your safety on the road.
Have fun, and enjoy your time with your dad.
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Life is to short to be looking for something?

garyj19 · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 226 Location: Connecticut

thanks everyone, i appreciate every one of your comments.
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early 77 924 na

John Brown · Joined: 07 Nov 2002 Posts: 903 Location: Leesburg VA

By any reasonable evaluation of the risk mitigation value of the rollbar, versus the hazard increase caused by the rollbar; then the rollbar is not a good tradeoff for street driving. In other words, it will create more risk than it will solve. ANY mechanical device usually creates it own set of hazards which must be considered along with the value of the benefits.

In this case the rollbar will NOT significantly improve the survivability of the passenger compartment even in an extreme impact. Just adding a couple of pieces of steel tubing is not a major improvement over the very very strong structure provided by the manufacturer engineers. (And yes, a sunroof 924/944 is as strong or stronger than a non-sunroof because of the stiffening around the opening.) I have observed several roll overs (AT THE TRACK) where the installed rollbar was NOT impacted by the cars structure because the structure did not collapse that far. In other words, the roll bar actually was just along for the ride and did nothing!

Side impact is actually the more likely hazard and the roll bar will do nothing for that occurance as it sits well behind the passenger compartment and is not designed to resist side impact anyway.

The rollbar creates a significant hazard that you will impact the bar itself in any impact. It will be at least 4 inches closer than any existing hard surface of the car. It is not flat as are most of the exisitng hard surface. Padding can partially mitigate this hazard but even that is partial AND you would have to use the SFI certified stuff which is very hard to the touch.

There is some restriction of vision with a rollbar and padding.

You can share this with your Dad. Tell him I am an FAA Aviation Safety Inspector, 55 years old, I have a son 23 and a daughter 21. I am the Safety Chair for Potomac Region of the Porsche Club.

IF we were talking about a convertible then the benefit/deficit ratio might be different; although even then I think my opinion would be 'just don't get a convertible'. Considering a hard top Porsche I do not believe the rollbar will mitigate the risks you Dad is concerned about. You are likely to be injured simply from the secondary impacts associated with any severe collision but the rollbar will not help there.
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John
80 931 - #931 44Cup
99 Escalade - tows track cars
gone but not forgotten: original 924.org car - 82

garyj19 · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 226 Location: Connecticut

thanks so much guys, my dad told me i won. he saw that a 924 is a very safe car and now i dont need to put one in!! YAY!
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early 77 924 na

Vince Ponz · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 3581 Location: Florida

Put the bar in. I have one in my car for 10 years. You don't know how many cars I have seen hit broadside.

Another reason you will not have room for others in the back and you will have to ride in other cars. Save gas.

Seriousely put it in when you start driving the car. Your father cares for you.
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"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

StienbargerR · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 1362 Location: Richmond, IN

I dont think a rool bar is necessary. I have been driving for about a year, and the only accident I was in was a low speed fenderbender. I was leaving school, and the traffic was heavy, and moving slowly. A lady in front of me slammed on her brakes, and I didn't have time to stop, because I was really close to her, so that the car behind me didnt block th intersection behind us. Neither of our cars were messed up. I think part of the accident happened because I had a car load of soccer teammates in my car, and they were distracting. So just avoid driving alot of people when you get out on the road. I refuse to drive more that 2 of my friends to soccer anymore. Some people have no respect for the people who drive them around. ugh.

Ryan

John Brown · Joined: 07 Nov 2002 Posts: 903 Location: Leesburg VA

Smoothie · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject:

I agree. No rollbar unless you're also wearing a helmet.
Way more important and useful than installing a rollbar is to have an awareness of the forces involved and just to drive reasonably, unlike these geniuses that were playing bumper tag just about 4 miles from my house on Monday - http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/somerset/index.ssf?/base/news-0/113877716827680.xml&coll=1
Rough, sobering stuff there, but better to learn from others poor choices. Knowing the area, that happened in exactly the place a couple kids (living where the one does and the other did), would go to horse around. (A wide open area of industrial and corporate parks and farm land - wide streets and relatively deserted in off-hours.) That whole excursion was very obviously a bad idea from the start, so should have been easy to avoid. If ever tempted into a situation like that, just wave it off and let 'em experiment somewhere else with someone else if they must.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

Mike924 · Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 2601 Location: IoW UK

...and make sure you're wearing a seat belt!

Unlike the dope (ex-dope) in Smoothie's news story.
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1985 Porsche 924 'Lux', Kalahari Beige (my ex)
1993 Porsche 968 Coupe, Midnight Blue, 6 spd

'There is no substitute for a little grease under your fingernails.' - Chrenan, 924board.org

Lord Fester · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 33 Location: Rhode Island

This reminds me that I've noticed that I get more people pulling out in front of me in my Porsche than anything else I've ever driven, including motorcycles!
Has anyone else noticed this?

BTW riding a motorcycle will make anyone a better street driver. Liken it to being a deer in a wood full of wolves. All of your senses hone and you find yourself a great judge of "character" when looking at others on the road. Next to "ricers", dented cars ("calling cards") and "q-tips" (old ladies shorter than the dashboard) require the most attention as they usually perform unexpected acts for no apparent reason...

Oh yeah, Roll bar uneccesary. You may actually get more "challenges" from other stooo-nahds out there just because it's in there.

A rollbar on a streetcar is like having yer gonads swinging out challenging everyone!

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'87 924S slushbox (nice tourer)
'87 VDub Cabriolet "hers"
'87 VDub Cabriolet "ol skool" mine
'82 Scirocco (organ donor)

Living the dream. One broken part at a time...

Mike924 · Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 2601 Location: IoW UK

chris24 · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:03 am Post subject:

I thought motorbikes would be awesome. Was thinking about taking my tests so a friend took me out on his suzuki 750. Within 100m of his house we got knocked off at a roundabout by a girl in a golf gti who's only excuse for coming on the roundabout was that "the sun was in my eyes so I couldn't see anything."

Sure, you can see dodgy people, you can acclerate out of trouble but her car didn't look dodgy and we weren't fast enough to accelerate out of trouble even though it was a sorted bike.

Furthermore, I see the guys coming in to A+E who have come off their bikes (it usually seems to be their own fault - but I may be wrong). Most are a mess. A good friend lost an arm on his bike (but he still rides a BMW R1200).

That has all put me off. I love my 924.
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1983 - 924 (185K miles) - not mint
1985 - 924 (148K miles) - mint
1990 - 944S2 cab (52K miles)

J1NX3D · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 1333 Location: New Zealand

we've had 3 guys in less than a year from the same squadron have fatal accidents on bikes. it put me off getting one!

the 2nd guy died in a cruise held for the first guy who died the night before. The 2nd guys g/f was pillion and died also. they had nowhere to go and hit a turning truck. the 1st and 3rd guys were intoxicated.
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'86 944