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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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 Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dear timdog931,
The 931 (932 for right hand drive cars) has been in use as an internal code for the 924 turbo since it began in 1978/79. It is nothing special for US cars I'm afraid. Any further information you can provide that can separate this car as being any more special to the 13,000 other 931's/924 turbos produced. Many thanks
i have referenced my source of information on the 931 unofficial designation how and when and to what cars it was appled to. They were received by Hobart racing the grandfather died on the track racing porsche One of the cars may have been discarded like a jonas for luck. This car obviously fell into the wrong hands it was in impound for 3 years before I bought it from action savings and loan during the s&l crisis. I found a porsche plaque with a porsche crest on it that was cut into the gear shift boot base it said timmy and i found reciepts from a concrete company in millville or vineland that may have been his familys company.The car had components(the DSL increased horepower a prototype catalytic converter and possibly if im right a titanium drive shaft with the torque tube that is on the car) and construction simalarities(lack of a front bumper all black interior able to wear the correct GTS body kit properly) Are you shure you are not assuming the unofficial designation was applied to the 924 turbos destined for the US at its inconception at the water cooler im not insulting your intelligence I am argueing a point that goes against what everyone believes with what could be the one example that wasnt choped for gtr racing
- timdog931
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Northwestern-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Just a quicky update. I called Dan's Auto Body yesterday, spoke to a very nice gal there, but Dan is referring all inquiries to the seller.
Seems the car has been there for some time, and also parked outside. Given the fact that the location is affected by the Atlantic salt air, I'm guessing it may have some issues in that regard.
However, there are two bidders on it!
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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Nein37
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 513
Location: New London, CT
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | i have referenced my source of information on the 931 unofficial designation how and when and to what cars it was appled to. They were received by Hobart racing the grandfather died on the track racing porsche One of the cars may have been discarded like a jonas for luck. This car obviously fell into the wrong hands it was in impound for 3 years before I bought it from action savings and loan during the s&l crisis. I found a porsche plaque with a porsche crest on it that was cut into the gear shift boot base it said timmy and i found reciepts from a concrete company in millville or vineland that may have been his familys company.The car had components(the DSL increased horepower a prototype catalytic converter and possibly if im right a titanium drive shaft with the torque tube that is on the car) and construction simalarities(lack of a front bumper all black interior able to wear the correct GTS body kit properly) Are you shure you are not assuming the unofficial designation was applied to the 924 turbos destined for the US at its inconception at the water cooler im not insulting your intelligence I am argueing a point that goes against what everyone believes with what could be the one example that wasnt choped for gtr racing
- timdog931 |
Holy God!!! WTF is he smoking! 
_________________
1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears. |
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joecitizennn
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Carrera RSR wrote: |
i have referenced my source of information on the 931 unofficial designation how and when and to what cars it was appled to. They were received by Hobart racing the grandfather died on the track racing porsche One of the cars may have been discarded like a jonas for luck. This car obviously fell into the wrong hands it was in impound for 3 years before I bought it from action savings and loan during the s&l crisis. I found a porsche plaque with a porsche crest on it that was cut into the gear shift boot base it said timmy and i found reciepts from a concrete company in millville or vineland that may have been his familys company.The car had components(the DSL increased horepower a prototype catalytic converter and possibly if im right a titanium drive shaft with the torque tube that is on the car) and construction simalarities(lack of a front bumper all black interior able to wear the correct GTS body kit properly) Are you shure you are not assuming the unofficial designation was applied to the 924 turbos destined for the US at its inconception at the water cooler im not insulting your intelligence I am argueing a point that goes against what everyone believes with what could be the one example that wasnt choped for gtr racing
- timdog931 |
iam totly out of my fockinghead and have in stated that this931 is actually infact truly a ver raercar that hassome goldstuff on it and wuz in a magazin furthermore idrove the holeepiss out ofit and it instructed me by its nature that itwas in fact a peice of crapthat has sitten for toodamn long so my dead grandfather bought a a rabbits foot hpoing that it would cure his incontinance but the holeepiss was drove from him too and in the end when hobart came to mind i had no way to pay to get mine car back so on ebay she wrote. gearshift boot base.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold |
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!tom
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1941
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Could timdog really be timstar?
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78 924 NA
5-lug |
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brealytrent
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Goldsboro, NC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Why are there 8 bids on this?
_________________
1977 Porsche 924 - sold
1980 Porsche 931 - sold
1984 Porsche 928 'S2' Euro - sold
2016 Ford Fiesta ST - sold
2009 Porsche Cayman |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| brealytrent wrote: | | Why are there 8 bids on this? |
You just know it's all going to go wrong when the winning bidder goes to pick up the car from Dan's Autos and they didn't realise there was a further $2000+ bill to settle plus the paint costs!!
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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CorsePerVita
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1992
Location: Redmond, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Carrera RSR wrote: | | brealytrent wrote: | | Why are there 8 bids on this? |
You just know it's all going to go wrong when the winning bidder goes to pick up the car from Dan's Autos and they didn't realise there was a further $2000+ bill to settle plus the paint costs!! |
If it smells like a stinking rotting fish...
It's either a stinking rotting fish...
_________________
- 1977 Porsche 924 2.0 N/A (Trackday Project)
- 1979 Porsche 924 2.0 N/A (The other daily)
- 1980 Porsche 931 (Daily)
- 1987 Lamborghini Jalpa
- 1999 Ducati 900SS |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Northwestern-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| brealytrent wrote: | | Why are there 8 bids on this? |
The bid history is interesting. The current high bidder has been in the game since the car was at $500.00. His feedback score is 9 and he's bid on Hummer, a Jag, a Mercedes...
Hard to speculate, maybe he's seen the car in person. OR, maybe he know's this seller, knows the reserve and is just bidding it up to get some action going...who knows? OR maybe it's someone who has read these posts, did more research, looked at the car and knows something that we don't...okay...fess up whoever you are  .
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:31 am Post subject: |
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OK, time for me to get in on the fun. I just sent him the following two messages:
| Quote: | You wrote: "The 931 designation was given to a group of 924 turbos built for racing in the US as GTR". THIS IS WRONG.
931 was the internal project code assigned by Porsche to the turbocharged type 924, marketed publicly as the 924 Turbo. 932 was the right hand drive version. The GTx variants (the Carrera GT, GTS, GTR, and GTP) all had the internal project designation of "937". Based on the listed VIN, this car is NOTHING MORE than a owner-modified US-spec 924 Turbo (a.k.a. 931).
http://www.924board.org/register/vindec.html
You wrote: "They were considered prototypes and the test bed for the lambra fuel system and the bosch motronic computerized timing control unit." THIS IS WRONG.
The Motronic *electronic* fuel injection system was not introduced until '83 on the 2.5L 944. Your car has a predecessor system called "Digital Ignition & Timing Control" (made by Siemens) to manage ignition timing on the Bosch CIS *mechanical* injection found on ALL 2L cars, including the GTx variants. |
| Quote: | You wrote: "but like the GTS they were enhanced with stronger shafts and bigger pistons..." THIS IS WRONG.
The Euro 931 had the same 8.5:1 compression ratio as the CGT and GTS, with the same bore (86.5mm) and stroke (84.4). Your US-spec 931 had piston with reduced CR of 8.0:1. The standard 931 had CAST pistons made by Mahle, whereas the CGT and GTS had FORGED pistons made by Kolbenschmidt. These details are all borne out by the Porsche parts catalog (PET).
You wrote: "...to handle the added 40 hp..." THIS IS WRONG.
The stock Euro S2 931 had 175 BHP. The stock Carrera GT had 210 BHP. The stock GTS had 250BHP. The GTR by some accounts had as much as 375 BHP. The additional horsepower had nothing to do with engine internals. Power was increased by increasing boost. Period.
You wrote: "...offered by the intercoolers that were installed after they arrived." THIS IS WRONG.
All GTx variants had intercoolers from the factory as part of the homologation requirement to enter them into LeMans. |
It will be interesting to see what response those elicit!
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Feltron
Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 44
Location: Port Murray NJ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| joecitizennn wrote: |
iam totly out of my fockinghead and have in stated that this931 is actually infact truly a ver raercar that hassome goldstuff on it and wuz in a magazin furthermore idrove the holeepiss out ofit and it instructed me by its nature that itwas in fact a peice of crapthat has sitten for toodamn long so my dead grandfather bought a a rabbits foot hpoing that it would cure his incontinance but the holeepiss was drove from him too and in the end when hobart came to mind i had no way to pay to get mine car back so on ebay she wrote. gearshift boot base. |
That is hilarious
| Carrera RSR wrote: | | brealytrent wrote: | | Why are there 8 bids on this? |
You just know it's all going to go wrong when the winning bidder goes to pick up the car from Dan's Autos and they didn't realise there was a further $2000+ bill to settle plus the paint costs!! |
Yea but for that 2000 you get to paint the car ANY color you want, thats a hot steamin deal if you ask me ;)
As for Ideola, I am also anxious for his responses.[/code]
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89' Ranger with a custom front end and 924 bucket seats
78' 924 beggin to get on the track |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Dear ideola1124,
Read the text I referenced. The cars sent to the US were sent without the intercoolers. You are referring to factory raced GTR. Lemans is in France. The exact bore, stroke and piston composition would have to be determined but if you try to put an intercooler on a US spec 924 turbo you will gain 40hp and if the motor is not enhanced you can expect problems. Additional hp was gained with boost true you are assuming it is a US spec 924 turbo that was detuned for the US. This is a true 931. Try picking one up sometime
- timdog931 |
| Quote: | Dear timdog931,
You wrote: "The cars sent to the US were sent without the intercoolers"
There were no GTx cars (i.e. cars with the 93xxx7 VIN designation) imported into the US. Your car is not a GTx. It does not have a 93xxx7 VIN. It is nothing more than an owner-modified 1981 US-Spec 931.
You wrote: "You are referring to factory raced GTR"
WRONG. I am referring to all 937s, which include the Carerra GT, the Carerra GTS, the GTR, and the GTP. These were four distinct variations of the 937, all had 93xxx7 VIN numbers.
You wrote: "Lemans is in France."
Duh.
You wrote: "The exact bore, stroke and piston composition would have to be determined"
WRONG x 3. Stock bore is 86.5mm (OEM oversizes were 86.75mm and 87.00mm). All 2.0L cars had 84.4mm stroke. Period. RE: piston composition, why don't you check the engine code stamped on the block and post it in the ad. That will remove all doubt. In all likelihood it's M31.04, which would match the US-spec 1981 series 2 VIN you posted. The burden is on you the seller to prove otherwise.
You wrote: "if you try to put an intercooler on a US spec 924 turbo you will gain 40hp "
WRONG. An intercooler will not inherently increase HP. It *will* allow higher boost before detonation. The higher boost level is what increases HP, not the intercooler. Plus the US had lower CR, so would still not match Euro HP.
You wrote: "and if the motor is not enhanced you can expect problems"
WRONG. There are plenty of examples of 931 owners who have increased boost with no intercooler and no modification to engine internals who have been successful in safely increasing HP.
You wrote: "you are assuming it is a US spec 924 turbo that was detuned for the US"
WRONG. I'm not assuming, I'm basing it on FACT. Check the VIN you posted with the VIN decoder.
You wrote: "This is a true 931"
All 924 Turbos are true 931s. Period.
You wrote: "Try picking one up sometime"
I own three US S1s, one US S2, and two Euro S2s (TRUE Euro 931s privately imported).
- ideola1124 |
| Quote: | Dear ideola1124,
go inspect the car it has a bosch motronic computerized timing control unit do you no what a test bed or a prototype is it means it wasnt in mass production yet do yourself a favior pick the excellence mag i referred to read it it was probably classified imformation at the time the car was built do you think they would tell everyone they were slipping illegal racers into the us watch for this car its the american basterd carrera
- timdog931 |
| Quote: | Dear timdog931,
I have a better idea. Why don't you take a photo of the "Bosch Motronic" computer module and post it for everyone to see. The burden is on YOU the SELLER to prove what you are claiming. Your story is so full of blatant inaccuracies and wild unsubstantiated claims that it is completely unbelievable. Even if there IS a Motronic unit (which I highly doubt), it doesn't mean that's how it was delivered from the factory.
Check your VIN. It falls right smack in the middle of the 1981 model year, and doesn't conform with any prototype VIN classification ever documented in use by Porsche throughout the development of the 931 / 937 platforms.
Until you provide definitive proof otherwise, you have nothing more than an owner-modified US-spec 931. The VIN is the key and it doesn't lie. Besides the fact that the prototypes of the GTx were all released in 1979, NOT in 1981.
- ideola1124 |
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Northwestern-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I contacted this guy 4 or 5 times during the last go around with facts and questions...no real results, and in the last two responses from him he just said "thank you"  !
Methinks he's more than a bit delusional and needs to get his meds staightened out !
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm guessing that the back-story on this car is somebody way back when got the idea to try to re-create one of the original 1979 937 prototypes, and that's where all this prototype nonsense is coming from. Of course, the prototypes would've had intercoolers, and his front valance is all wrong. The AIR-supplied body panels are another dead giveaway that it's not bonafide. (Check out the engine code on the one in the link above... M31.50.001 !!!)
The interesting thing is that Paul Celentano has a 1979 turbo car (VIN: 9249400099) that has the CGT polyurethane body work, but did not come with an intercooler.
But this guy's car is way wrong with respect to the VIN. Although it would be fascinating to know what the engine code was...
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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the_mad_electrician
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1073
Location: Central Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:13 am Post subject: |
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You guys are having too much fun with this guy
_________________
81 924 N/A
2004 Ranger "Edge"
2005 Mazda 6 |
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