924Board.org

[j03k64]

I have the very unpleasant feeling that the RMS is leaking.

My car's been in storage for a couple years (again). I did the normal get it out of long term storage checklist. I had chronic fuel system issues (won't start, flooding/no fuel), so I did a minor rebuild on the CIS. Fouled the plugs at some point, cleaned them up and back in.

Got it started and idling. Let it warm up completely to dry the plugs out and get use to it's new life out of storage. Drove around the block (5 miles). Drives well, power band is nice and even. All perfect.

I park. I left the car running for a walk around and notice oil dripping at the engine and bell housing. My heart sinks into my balls after owning the car for 16 years. I quickly realize that the oil was likely fouled during fuel system troubleshooting; causing it to irritate the seals. It appears to be dripping from the front pan U-seal and out the keyhole slot in the bell housing directly below the removable shield. We wiped things off to try and figure out where it's coming from. It only leaks when the car is running.

I know the front seal is obviously a pan seal and oil is seeping from there, running between the fins of the pan - it appears it can make it from there to the lower part of the bell housing near the keyhole slot?

I removed the bell housing inspection plate, no oil, just road grime and a bit of grease/oil funk. It seems to drip from the keyhole slot there. If the RMS is toast, that is where it leaks from correct? Is that chamber separate from the clutch inspection plate area? I've never been in there on either of my 924s; I leave anything that has to do with major seals/clutch alone - If it's happy don't screw with it.

We changed the oil and put in some CRC Gasket Sealant in on a prayer. I've been heat cycling it to try to get it to recondition the seals or 'take' before going out on the road much. I really do not want to pull the motor... It's only leaked once in 16 years, stopped a few days later on it's own. Maybe it's making up for lost time

Any advice or ideas would be good?
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1979 Porsche 924
1980 Porsche 924

[Rasta Monsta]

Hoping you're not thinking it should be bone dry.

Is the crankcase breather hooked up properly?
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[j03k64]

If you remove the inspection plate on the bell housing (http://www.porsche924-944.nl/manual/Haynes/image002e.gif), the bit for access to the clutch, is most definitely dry inside.

I didn't check to see if the crankcase breather is hooked up properly; that's a good idea. I'll check that tomorrow. If it's plugged, even intermittently/partially it pressurizes the crankcase, causing all kinds of oil leaks correct?

Oil seems to be leaking out of the little 'keyhole' where the engine and bell housing meet, just ahead of the inspection plate in the diagram link. There's no viscous oil in the bell housing upon removal of the inspection plate, which has me thinking that the two areas a separated in some manner as oil on your clutch is not a good thing.

I started it up today and managed to get the front seal to finally stop leaking; it seeps, but seems to be calming down a bit. The rear made a quarter size drip puddle from cold start to 10 minutes idle time. I let it cool out for a bit, went for a warm start. Front seal is better, but it started leaking like hell out of the keyhole at the rear. The puddle was nearly the size of my hand after 10 minutes idle time.

I got to thinking about the breather this evening. The car starts hard now. I key it, get out and hand throttle it until it warms up; no problems after it's running though. Would that be a symptom of the breather not being hooked up correctly? I adjusted the idle screw ever so slightly. I figured it was just the CIS cold start valve being a hater after being in storage; despite being cleaned.
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1979 Porsche 924
1980 Porsche 924

[Rasta Monsta]

You need to invest in (or fabricate) a proper CIS pressure tester to get this thing running right. I would also rent/borrow/fab a smoke tester. . .it will also never be right if it has vacuum leaks.

You did the timing belt, right?
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[maybeoneday]

Even if the crankcase breather is hooked up correctly I would give it a good clean (pipes too). Whilst I am not very familiar with this car yet, it is common that excess crankcase pressure from a blocked breather can push oil out past seals. Often once it is freed up oil weeps clean up, I have seen many seals replaced over and over again because of a blocked breather. Just an idea, hope it helps.
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1977 924 NA Auto

[j03k64]

CIS pressure test and volumetric tests at the injectors are all good - did that on rebuild. I went through the vacuum system to ensure all the lines are solid and no leaks. I had a line come off behind the fuel body (where two vac lines connect with a coolant line I believe) during the few months I drove it after returning to Ohio from Melbourne, Australia. It dies on the way home from getting coffee if it's like that!

Timing belt is fresh and tight. Timing at distro seems to be close enough as the power/idle are both nice and even.

I pulled the breather tubes. The big one that leads to the CIS broke off in my hand at the brass Y connector on the crankcase, leaving the lovely collar with the screw set facing the engine block stuck on the nurl. This sucks as there's absolutely no way to get at it. I used a hacksaw blade as a removal tool. The smaller breather line and tube connecting the Y to the crankcase were also cracked. The connecting tube and Y unit also came out in my hand leaving the collar on the ball nurl Apparently, they are old and want replaced! Not a good day for just wanting to look in a couple tubes...

The breather lines were pristine inside. The filter on the end of the smaller line was clean, but the filter material looks 'waxed' from moisture and is potentially serving as THE blockage. The Y piece looks funky inside, but is very far from being blocked. There is horrible grease/chemical build up in that area that eats at your hands.

Replacing the breather tubing tomorrow. I'll inspect the CIS port for blockages as well. Is there a place that a blockage commonly forms in the system? What's the best way to 'clean out' the brass tube on the ball at the crankcase? Preferably one doesn't contaminate the oil. I'm in the mood to use the ShopVac on it after today...

I'll run it without the air filter on the breather line to see if that resolves the oil leaking issue. Photos at the links below.

Dead tube.
http://1drv.ms/1Jui3rx

Underside possible RMS leak with oil puddle:
http://1drv.ms/1EGg3oN

Close Up, focus isn't good, but you can seek the keyhole leaking dripping back to the inspection plate and onto the tube there...
http://1drv.ms/1EGgdN2
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1979 Porsche 924
1980 Porsche 924

[Fasteddie313]

[jason c]

[Fasteddie313]

[jason c]

[j03k64]

I rebuilt the oil breather line/s this afternoon and got a replacement breather line filter. The old filter would barely let air through when you put the air compressor to it in your hand. Moisture seems to have swollen the filter material together, potentially causing increased crankcase pressures and resulting oil leaks.

Fasteddie313:
Thanks for sorting the pictures out I gave up and just linked them. Using photobucket from now on. Leaks oil while running/warm only. Coming from the keyhole mostly, I checked around up higher with my hand back there, no fresh oil, just greasy road grime.

jasonc
After the breather rebuild, I left the filter off the breather line, oil cap loose and started it this afternoon. It builds pressure on the small vent line; varies with throttle speed.

It doesn't burn excessive amounts of oil or smoke much unless it runs hot, which it has been lately. I run it slightly rich, opposed to lean. I doubt it's the rings. They usually smoke like an oil rig fire constantly if the rings are failing. Oil level is/was on the mark. Careful about that; it's harder to take out than it is to put in. Topping it up as it leaks out...

Good News: It 'seems' to be leaking less on both ends.

Bad News: It's overheating and running lean after it's warmed up. The exhaust intermittently pops like it's shooting tennis balls out, yet sounds even at the front. It was very low on fuel yesterday, so I topped it up and got the same result this morning.

My father and I started thinking about it: It's slightly hard starting, but the fuel pressure/volumes are good and with no visible vacuum leaks. Mixture hasn't been tampered with. Runs nice and even, but as it warms up the idle increases, it starts running lean, then gets hot very very quickly.

EGR failure... Come to think of it, I've never replaced that! I pulled the line off the unit, not one bit of vacuum at the unit or line. I'm betting it's finally stuck after 15+ years of use!

I had intermittent overheating issues the last time I had it out, thought it was air in the coolant system after replacing the fluid, burped it a few times and the system checked out as all good. All that time it could be that the EGR was dying/dead...

I checked a few places, NAPA, Autozone, Pelican and Paragon - no luck. Where does one buy a new EGR valve for a 924 these days?

Trying to minimize variables.
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1979 Porsche 924
1980 Porsche 924

[jason c]

[j03k64]

Very true, I hope that's not the case! I could drain some of the oil out of the sump to see if it's discolored/has carbon deposits. The oil seep at the front pan seal looks quite fresh. Oil dripping off the back looks darker. It would be hard to sort that out 100% without pulling the motor I guess?

I smoke tested it for vacuum leaks again today. Checked the entire system including the vacuum balls and amplifier unit - not a single leak. Smoke tested the EGR vacuum line connection and line itself; absolutely no signs of vacuum at either.

I looked everywhere online, not a single EGR to be found. What's everyone doing with their EGR after it kicks the bucket? Cleaning it? Deleting it?
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1979 Porsche 924
1980 Porsche 924

[jason c]

[j03k64]