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4A-GZE engine swap
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-nick  



Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2699
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looking over this thread briefly, I didn't notice any mention of fuel or ignition management? Adapting the stock CIS would be a nightmare and anything else is going really cost not only in parts, but also in dyno tuning. Then there's getting an exhaust made (I paid $300 for a pretty simple custom header back job).

It's a great thought- when you're able to throw around $10k without blinking, have a garage full of equipment, and a full year to dedicate to it. Then you still have a car that will need a completely new suspension to handle the power (figure at least another $1k) and the brake upgrade/wheels/tires (+ $1k), the list goes on...

I'm just saying, this is a really expensive proposition! I know it sucks, but when I was around your age, I probably made less than $8k a year and even working that much wasn't easy with school/social committments/etc. Not to mention by the time you've gone to a few concerts and have taken out a few women, there's not much left!

Best of luck,
-nick
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jamez  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 401
Location: Chehalis, Wa

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming the 4A-GZE will have a computer that comes with it, then all you have to do is supply power and ground to it (maybe a few other stuff). shouldn't be that hard, but you will have to do some research to find what wires go where..
I can say from personall experience that putting a different motor in a 924 is a fairly tough job, but doable. however if you have little or no mechanical experience it would be damn near impossible.
exactly what type of class are you taking? just make sure they are gonna teach you enough to do a job like this, it will require knowledge of how an engine/drivetrain/car works, but more than anything fabrication and engineering skills.
As far as money goes: If you leave the 4A-GZE stock at first then you wont have to worry about suspension/brakes. better brakes and suspension is always a good thing though, so definately plan on it in the future, especially once you start modifiying the engine for more power.
if you are doing your own fabrication of parts, or have a friend that isn't charging you, then it could probably be done for $2000 or $3000, if you are thrifty. what I would do is make a list of all the parts you know you are gonna need, then double the price.. And if you are not thrifty, then you could easily spend $15000 on a project like that...
but don't let any of this discourage you, if you really want to do it, just make sure you completely understand what you are getting yourself into, and what the end result is. also if you just want a fast car, get something like a 300ZX tt, it would probaly be cheaper in the long run...
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 9364
Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

now what would be really funny is having him getting the engine in the car everything together, and going to take it for a drive, only to find out that the engine turns the wrong way giving him 4-5 revers gears and 1 forward gear
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jamez  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 401
Location: Chehalis, Wa

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha, that would be hillarious.
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CBass  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 2807
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-nick wrote:
Just looking over this thread briefly, I didn't notice any mention of fuel or ignition management? Adapting the stock CIS would be a nightmare and anything else is going really cost not only in parts, but also in dyno tuning. Then there's getting an exhaust made (I paid $300 for a pretty simple custom header back job).


The swap would require the use of the Toyota ECU, and it would be no chore to adapt the 924's catback exhaust to the 4A-GZE.

-nick wrote:

It's a great thought- when you're able to throw around $10k without blinking, have a garage full of equipment, and a full year to dedicate to it. Then you still have a car that will need a completely new suspension to handle the power (figure at least another $1k) and the brake upgrade/wheels/tires (+ $1k), the list goes on...


I don't see where the $10K figure comes into this at all... It's a $600 engine, a $250 clutch, figure $500 for miscellaneous upgrades and maintenance items... The fabrication work would be done by the father of a friend, at considerable discount. The work involved is really minor, especially compared to swapping a V8 into a 300ZX, or a V8 into a 924.

The power level is about 160hp, so it's not like it's going to render the suspension and brakes of a 924 useless...

-nick wrote:

I'm just saying, this is a really expensive proposition! I know it sucks, but when I was around your age, I probably made less than $8k a year and even working that much wasn't easy with school/social committments/etc. Not to mention by the time you've gone to a few concerts and have taken out a few women, there's not much left!

Best of luck,
-nick


There's no arguing with that
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'81 931 in various states of assembly
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CBass  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 2807
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamez wrote:
I'm assuming the 4A-GZE will have a computer that comes with it, then all you have to do is supply power and ground to it (maybe a few other stuff). shouldn't be that hard, but you will have to do some research to find what wires go where..
I can say from personall experience that putting a different motor in a 924 is a fairly tough job, but doable. however if you have little or no mechanical experience it would be damn near impossible.
exactly what type of class are you taking? just make sure they are gonna teach you enough to do a job like this, it will require knowledge of how an engine/drivetrain/car works, but more than anything fabrication and engineering skills.


This is all true, there would be some work involved in adapting wiring, fuel and coolant plumbing, etc, but it's all pretty simple stuff, I wouldn't sweat it.

Fabrication knowhow is a must for a project like this. That being said, making some motor mounts and figuring out where to chop off the 924 input shaft for the torque tube is childs play when it comes to fabrication. There is no hard math, no real engineering necessary. It wouldn't take a good fabricator more than a few hours.

jamez wrote:

As far as money goes: If you leave the 4A-GZE stock at first then you wont have to worry about suspension/brakes. better brakes and suspension is always a good thing though, so definately plan on it in the future, especially once you start modifiying the engine for more power.
if you are doing your own fabrication of parts, or have a friend that isn't charging you, then it could probably be done for $2000 or $3000, if you are thrifty. what I would do is make a list of all the parts you know you are gonna need, then double the price.. And if you are not thrifty, then you could easily spend $15000 on a project like that...
but don't let any of this discourage you, if you really want to do it, just make sure you completely understand what you are getting yourself into, and what the end result is. also if you just want a fast car, get something like a 300ZX tt, it would probaly be cheaper in the long run...


If everything went smoothly, and the fab work was done at the going rate, the engine swap should come to less than $2000, with the engine running in the car. That's including a $500 budget for mistakes.
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geezergary  



Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 80
Location: sask.ca

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: 4a swap Reply with quote

I wish you good luck ! The 4a is a good engine . My son has
done very well with them at solo 2(the older 4age - sounds great
bouncing off the the rev limiter at 7900 rpm ) ! ! !
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1982Porsche924  



Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 679
Location: Cupertino, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If everything went smoothly, and the fab work was done at the going rate, the engine swap should come to less than $2000, with the engine running in the car. That's including a $500 budget for mistakes.


For $2000, you could avoid the hassle of swapping engines and cutting shafts, and just buy a 924 Turbo. The 931 engine has 150hp vs. the 160hp of the Mazda, but can easily be boosted up to 17 pounds. I just don't see the practicality of this project. What is so bad about the Audi motor?
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1979 Porsche 924 "S"
Engine: Euro pistons, Light Flywheel, Weber TB, Bursch Header, Cam Wheel
Suspension: Front coil-overs, adj sways, Solid bush. Thicker tors. bars, 5-bolt, BBS rims
Body: Fiberglass widebody kit, 931 Nose
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CBass  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 2807
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1982Porsche924 wrote:


For $2000, you could avoid the hassle of swapping engines and cutting shafts, and just buy a 924 Turbo. The 931 engine has 150hp vs. the 160hp of the Mazda, but can easily be boosted up to 17 pounds. I just don't see the practicality of this project. What is so bad about the Audi motor?


The 4A-GE has a few advantages, fuel economy, cheaper parts, actual aftermarket support

With the old HKS twincharging kit, people were making better than 300hp on pump gas. IIRC, the kit came with a set of nice cams that made good power right up to around 8000rpm, and the turbocharger made it's best boost above 4000rpm. The supercharger was geared to make it's best boost down low, and the crossover point was around 4000rpm, then the supercharger shut down and the bypass valves opened to make it essentially a turbocharged engine.

The advantage of that setup is, you get very strong low end torque, as well as mind blowing top end performance, and it still has the driveability of a DOHC EFI street engine.


I think the point is moot though, as JoonTae is probably not going to buy that 924 :/
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