924Board.org

[OR_Sunset]

Well, since the car blew up, I have been driving a 90 something Ford Taurus. This car's handling in the snow sucks. An understeering monster. I keep reading that factories prefer understeer to oversteer b/c it is apparently safer. I think this is BS.

Understeer causes you to slide into the object you are trying to steer around. This is not safe. Why do they think so many cars slide into each other in snowstorms? The driver turns the wheel and the car doesn't respond. With an oversteering car at least the rear kicks out, you not only slow down, but also turn! Easier to control, also.

By observation: you steer an oversteering car with the throttle, and an understeering one with the brakes. I''ll take throttle control any day.

Understeering cars are a hazard, and manufacturers should do everything they can to eliminate this trait from their vehicles.

Just another donation from my 2 cents account.

[OR_Sunset]

Oh yeah, just to connect this last post with my Porsche... it felt like the spin axis was right around the driver's seat. I NEVER felt any understeer, and if anything, there was a mild amount of oversteer at the limit of adhesion.

[Neil924]

70 percent of people don't know what under/oversteer is. Another 28 percent get them mixed up. 1.7 percent will have to think for 30 secs before they can remember what to do to get the car doing what it should be doing {too long, they would be in the ditch by then.} So that leaves .3 percent of drivers who know what to do when the going gets tough. Guess what... the don't get into many wrecks. So the car companies {if what you say about designs are true} are protecting people who don't know all there is to know about driving.

[mrgtturbo]

Front wheel drive cars should have bald tires in the back for the winter. My GT does, makes it so fun and easy to control in the snow, no need to E-brake when wanting to drift around a corner.

Front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, doesn't matter... snow driving is fun and safe if you know what your doing.

But that's the problem, so many people don't know how to drive in the snow, what do I do, what do I do? But let's face it, a high % don't know how to drive in the summer either.

I think in order to get your license the instructor should take the driver to be out to a wet skid pad, and say... let's play. No fear, no hessitation, learn control.
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81' 931

[OR_Sunset]

Agreed. Learning how to properly control a vehicle should be a part of the licensing process... not just learning the rules of the road and how to parallel park.

[924RACR]

Nonononononononono.

You got it all wrong.

You steer an understeering car with the handbrake.

In a Ford POS, like the the ToreA$$, you disable the ratchet in the parking brake/footbrake pedal thingy so you can use your left foot (since you're not using it to shift) on the left pedal to turn the car as needed.

Of course, you didn't hear that from me.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[mrgtturbo]

I used to have an old Datsun 210 SL.
Not much of a car but fun to play around in.
I removed the ratchet thing that held the E-Brake lever up, and connected a pretty strong return spring.

You get cranking around a corner, hand off the shifter to the ebrake, a quick little snap upwards and back to the shifter. All the sudden you have the power to drift that corner you couldn't before. It was a great little car to play around with.

Kind of wish I still had it.
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81' 931

[ZV]

Understeer _is_ safer for the average driver. Better to have the car plow than to have it spin out. If the cars were tuned for oversteer, people would be doing 360 degree spins over the lane divider much more often.

Aaron
_________________
Shifting is an art, learn it, love it, live it.

1976 Porsche 914 2.0 - Driving Restoration.
1987 Porsche 924S - Daily Driver

[OR_Sunset]

Yeah... I guess I just find that the combination of power steering and understeer combines in such a way that when it doesn't turn immediately, then it is over-corrected and turned too far when things finally start working. Mostly, it is b/c I am not used to driving a car with 75% of the weight in the front.

Is it really that difficult in our high tech world to mass-produce a car with neutral handling and a more centered weight bias?

[Eturbo924]

When my friends and I were teens we used to go out in the snow storms ... when everyone else was staying in. We would play chase and such. It was the best way to learn how to properly negotiate turns and such with the car sliding sideways.

Front wheel drive cars will always perform better in the snow then a typical real wheel drive car. Power is put down by the wheels that also control dirrection. Weight of the engine and transmission dirrectly over the wheels. Power steering does not delay the movement of the wheels by the way. Might be a numb feeling but the only time there should be a delay is if there is a major problem with your steering.

The Taurus is a dependable and reasonably safe family car. I would rather be in a 2000 some thing Taurus in a snow storm than my 924. Partly due to the fact I would not want some idiot smashing into me and partly due to the fact that the Taurus will have much better traction.

Now obviously it is not a sports car by any stretch of the imagination. The 6 cylinder SHO... that is a different matter. I had 3 different ones in my family. Excellent car if you get a good example.

Anyway go out and play as Vaughan and others suggested using the e-brake. It is a ball! I do prefer the hand brake as in most imports over the stupid foot pedal in most of the American brands. I did a nice power slide into my work parking lot with a 1998 Maxima this morning! Weeeeee

Learn to use the power and when to back off. It is different for a rwd car. Best to practice in both and obviously recall the proper technique depending on the car you are driving.

Just my 2 cents.

Eric
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1982 924
1992 968
2003 C4S
Parts Parts Parts and More parts.
E-mail me for parts you need!
Drive Fast!

[OR_Sunset]

Yeah... I am not going to "practice" in a car that isn't mine, though. I am looking into buying another car, though, while I am fixing the Porsche... then I can have a car for bad weather, daily commuting, etc.

I found a pretty clean 2000 Neon. Pretty cool little car. THAT, I would love to "practice" in... Definitely not a sports car, but decent transp. And a 5-sp. to boot.
_________________
82 924 N/A -
9.3:1 CR Pistons, Dual Webers, Stage 2 Cam.
4-1 Headers, DynoMax exhaust, Monza tips.
MSD 6AL Ignition, 944racing short shift kit.
Through hood cold air intake with scoop, K&N.
Silver/Blue.

[Joes924Racer]

I did alot od what is called hicky bobbing in my youth among other playful things in the snow and on snow covered roads. Who else has done this. I was told it was dangerous. What you do
is run up behind a passing car and grb the bumper crouch down and be pulled along. We would wear tennis shoes or a flat dress shoe.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

[mrgtturbo]

I have a friend up here who snowboards behind his buddies car with about a 20 foot rope.
He does it every big storm before they plow.
One day I want to try too.
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81' 931

[Lizard]

[MGQ]

Mine steers alright but off the line traction is terrible, It has super old Perellis on it (same tread pattern as the ones that appear in 70s press photos) and they just spin. need to change them ASAP.