924Board.org

[felony4th]

son-of-AAA bitch!

I really love testing "limits" in the snow, and now I have paid DEARLY.

Help me, guys.

BOTH front fenders are done for. As is the hood, front head panel, and bumper. -The valance underneath was shot anyway.

I have ALL of these parts for replacement- still attached to my '82 on the side of the house.

It looks like the frame possibly could be bent- but I can't confirm it untill I crawl under there- and even then I might not be able to tell.


Any advise, oh wise ones? (please refrain from bashing me for driving hard in the snow, please)


<-no, really.... that's me now...


'81 924 Weissach- badly injured
'82 924
'87 924S

[trumpeter]

Best to check for suspension and frame damage first.

What did you hit to do in the fenders? Around these parts when one plays in the snow, you end in an empty corn field...

Trumpeter

[924guy]

tossing around a 924 in the snow is almost irresistible, and so much fun, cant hold that against you..though it probably would have been a good idea to keep it to parking lots where you can only bash curbs..
not much i can offer in the way of advise, but ill say a little prayer to the porsche gods , and hope theyll smile upon you.....
_________________
Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[Vince Ponz]

Please state where you are from. Why would I respond if you are in CA and I am in NY. It should be mandatory to tell us where you are from.

I have a hood and fenders. I can ship them. I also have front and rear bumpers, shocks and sway bars including headlight motors,side markers,replacement front and rear rubbers, etc.

So, where are you located?

Peter this would solve us asking questions and boring everyone. Please have them state at least a town 25 miles away from where they live.
_________________
"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

[felony4th]

yeah, well I figured I had entered my location into my profile when I first became a member. (it would be NICE if "location" was not hidden on the profile-edit page amongst a pack of funny stuff like 'ICQ number', 'AIM address', 'Yahoo messenger' and 'website'.... bah)

I am located in Dayton, Ohio U.S.

I was doing the hard driving in a neighborhood with cars lightly scatterred along the sides of the road. (fault me for that, of course) I got excited when I turned onto one that was still covered in snow, at which point I quickly gained excess speed and oversteered. It felt like HOURS passed as I overcorrected and overcorrected.... head-on into a late 90's Chevy S-10 parked on the left side. The owners of the compact pickup heard the impact and immediately came outside. I couldn't have bashed a nicer guy's truck.

Ah... live and learn. These things tend to happen to you when you're an IDIOT!


924guy I appreciate your prayers to the gods- I hope they look down and grant my dumbass a pardon, as this is my Weissach edition of which just over 400 were ever produced. Amen.


Vince, if you would've read my original post, you would have noticed that I already have the needed parts. Thanks anyway, though.



I guess I'm just looking for some info from anyone with any sort of similar front-end damage, like if they've had to have their frames straitened, or if they've had to replace any suspension components, etc..


thx guys

[Paul]

How fast were you going at the moment you hit the truck? You didn't mention if you were hurt....
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[924RACR]

It can all be straightened and/or replaced, not that big a deal IMO for a competent collision shop to handle the frame, all else you could likely DIY depending on your level of experience/tools...
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[emoore924]

It is pretty hard to give any accurate advice w/out eyes-on view of the damage. Why don't you post a few shots of the damage and let us take a look. Take a few good shots w/a digi camera; front-on, side-on, hood up (especially the radiator and the two 6x4 rails on either side of the fender wells), underneath (including a-arms and steering rack). Then we can offer better advice than anything that might be provided sight unseen.

[Eturbo924]

If both front fenders are junk, if you hit with more speed than about 10mph and the pumper was pushed up, down or in.. then the frame is likely swayed. If it were mashed you would see it ahead of the strut towers.

Anyway when I purchased my 944 with similar damage I took it to a frame guy. He was talking big bucks to fix it. Though one section of my frame rail was in need of replacement.

If you are willing to strip and replace the panels on the front... the frame damage can be fixed by a good shop in a few hours. Figure about 1-2 hours for set up time. 1-2 hours to pull the frame properly. So at $35 an hour... you are looking at $140 or so on the frame. Then of course comes any welds that need to be fixed, panels that need to be replaced, painting the components you have to match and such.

If you crushed any sections in the nose just cut them off and have the section from your 82 welded in. It will be a better repair then to ty to bang out the damaged parts. More costly but if you have a car you plan to keep and "collect"... do it right and replace the part.

Good luck with the repair.

Eric
_________________
1982 924
1992 968
2003 C4S
Parts Parts Parts and More parts.
E-mail me for parts you need!
Drive Fast!

[gohim]

Don't remove any structural components before an evaluation by a qualified body shop.

Modern cars built without a separate body and frame need to be straighten while intact for the simple reason that all parts are of the whole. Force applied to one component is force applied to all. To properly straighten and repair the car, you need to pull all of the parts back into the correct relationship to each other.

If you were to simply remove the bent or broken outer parts (fenders, hood bumper, etc...), and bolt on replacement parts, without checking and pulling out the attached inner parts, the odds are that while the parts you pul on top may look good, bent parts that are out of location will keep the car from driving the same as it did before the accident.

Ever see a good looking car crabbing sideways down the road?

[Eturbo924]

That is true but ... a good shop will have measurements where specific frame rails need to be. Thus if you pull the frame out. Then weld in a new nose section you will be fine.

Think of it this way. If the nose were completely crushed..... unrepairable... do you then throw away the car? No. You cut off the sections that can not be pulled and or use them simply as a piece to put your clamps on to pull.

I do agree that you need to evaluate each situation and it is always good to pull out damage to the damage deeper in the car first. First in last out mentality. Anyway. When I went to the shop they said if I wanted to break down the front end they would do the rest and it would cost me much less... and this was a very highly rated frame shop.

Best to take it to the shop that will do the pulls and see what they would like to do.

Eric
_________________
1982 924
1992 968
2003 C4S
Parts Parts Parts and More parts.
E-mail me for parts you need!
Drive Fast!

[AndyFranklin]

Rats. I was just in Dayton yesterday.

First step is that you come to this end of the state to learn how to drive in the stuff. When you were getting paralyzed a few weeks ago I was getting my third double-digit snowfall in two weeks. Too bad it all melted - although working in the garage without the heater was nice!

Everyone's already told you what you need to know. Get it looked at. Untweak the frame. The bolt-on parts are rather easy.

[felony4th]

[gohim]

No, I didn't write that the fenders and hood were structural parts.

You are taking the first sentence of the message I wrote "Don't remove any structural components before an evaluation by a qualified body shop.", and flying off without reading the rest of the message.

"Modern cars built without a separate body and frame need to be straighten while intact for the simple reason that all parts are of the whole. Force applied to one component is force applied to all. To properly straighten and repair the car, you need to pull all of the parts back into the correct relationship to each other."

And you missed my explaination of why you should not remove parts before inspection by the body shop.

"If you were to simply remove the bent or broken outer parts (fenders, hood bumper, etc...), and bolt on replacement parts, without checking and pulling out the attached inner parts, the odds are that while the parts you pul on top may look good, bent parts that are out of location will keep the car from driving the same as it did before the accident."

The body shop and/or frame shop will often use the bent parts at the points of impact to attach stretching/straightening tools (chains and clamps) to pull the car's metal work into factory specs. This brings the inner damage and the mounting points for the damaged bolt-on parts back to the correct locations so the replacement parts can be attached and will fit correctly.

It takes great amounts of force to clamp onto the metal to pull it back into shape, and the damaged parts that are not going to be reused give the shop excellent (cheap) places (ideally located) to attach to the car. Otherwise, if the shop/s were to grab directly onto the frame horns (box sections of the chassis were the bumper is attached), the box section may get pulled out, but it would also end up torn, and/or crushed. Then, you would end up paying to have the new damage from the frame straightening repaired as well.

I am not saying that you will not able able to remove anything before the shop makes any straightening pulls on the car. What I was trying to say is that you need to check with the ship first. Agree on the work to be done, and ask when you can/should remove the damaged bolt-on parts.

In most cases when I have had body damage repaired on cars, I did the strip down work at the shop, after the initial pulls on the body were done. Then, inspection measurements were done, cosmetic inner refinishing and cleanup were done, and then the reassembly process was done, so the replacement outer parts could be prepped and refinished to match the car.
said

[felony4th]

Gohim, I was just pokin a little fun atcha- I sincerely hope I didn't upset you, man. C'mon, we have a great communication going on through PM- and I completely trust and respect everything you tell me. *sucking sound*

OK, how's this sound: I'll remove the hood, nose panel, headlights, air box, and under valance- and I'll LEAVE the fenders and bumper. That should give them something to clamp to- unless you really believe that they would need to clamp those very weak parts I mentioned. ?

I wasn't going to remove any suspension or steering components anyway- as those should be very important for pulling, obviously

There is damage to the engine-bay thin steel in front of the strut tower, and the box-sections of the frame in the engine bay ARE damaged.

When I started her up and drove her up the driveway, into the garage, the steering rack felt pretty banged up. Truthfully the rack was VERY sloppy anyway- with bump-steer that was out of this world- so I wouldv'e been looking for a new or rebuilt one at some point.

-Yes I know a brand new 924 steering rack/rods will produce bump-steer, but I know the way to tune it out with a couple custom pieces of aluminum. If anyone wants me to post the article- I will do so.

Ok, fire away.

Gohim, I'll not make any more fun by spinning and or twisting your words into nonsense! hehe...