924Board.org

[timstar92404]

Ok i finally forced the timing belt on the lower pulley with soap.......

then I had to adjust the top pulley because it wouldn't be tense on teh top...

anywayw I put it on and put th tensionser on and the tensioner does not tesnion for some reason the screw just goes all teh way in but doesn't tension the timing belt by causing the tension to move closer....


what the hell is wrong? my tensioner turns fine why won't it tension?

am I doing something wrong

can someone help me?
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78 924 sold.
85.5 944

[timstar92404]

ah crap I think my tensionser either has a missing part (the big bolt thing , not the tightening bolt....) or it needs a special toor cus there are 2 tiny holseon the tensionser.

what am I suppose to do now.


also how would the tensioner tension teh long side of the belt when it is alreadon the teeth of the pulleys, I guess it would tension it or you would have to retension it when the engien turns.
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78 924 sold.
85.5 944

[Smoothie]

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, here's a picture of a timing belt tensioner -
The tensioner, if it is the newer style like the one pictured, will have 2 small holes to accept a tensioning tool. If you don't have a tool for the purpose, as a last resort you can stick nails in the holes and use a screwdriver between them to turn the tensioner to tension it. The "screw" (or "bolt" as I like to call them) only holds the thing on and has to be torqued after the tension is set. Apply tension to the belt by rotating the tensioner counter-clockwise*, tighten the bolt just enough that it holds the tensioner in position, but so you can still adjust it via the nails and screwdriver trick. Rotate the tensioner counter-clockwise*, tighten the bolt, then check the belt by twisting it with your fingers at the halfway point of the longer run of the belt (the right side as you're facing it). You're supposed to be able to twist the belt 90 degrees. This "twist with your fingers" is obviously not very scientific, so you might have to readjust it after observing and listening to it later with the engine running (loud squeeling means it's too tight and if it's flopping around, it's too loose).

* - The reason for rotating the tensioner counterclockwise is that the tension exerted on the tensioner by the tensioned belt will be pushing on it in such a way as to want to rotate the tensioner clockwise - the bolt of course tightens clockwise, so tension in this direction will tend to keep the bolt tight. That's the theory anyway. If the bolt's torqued correctly it may not amount to a hill o' beans, but it makes sense, and the manuals say to do it that way.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

[Smoothie]

The tensioner doesn't touch the long side of the belt. The toothed pulleys have to be lined-up with their marks and the long run of the belt runs straight between them. You might have to rotate the cam (larger) pulley slightly clockwise (as viewed from the front looking back), place the belt on the pulleys, then as the belt is tensioned, the cam pulley should rotate back to its' mark.

Both runs of the belt should be to the right side of the tensioner (again, as viewed from the front), with only the smooth side of the left-most run riding on the tensioner.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

[Lizard]

my offer still stands open, if the gears arent in the right spot it wont run, and just tightening the bolt doesnt tension,

as I stated EARLIER if you use the new tensioner, you will HAVE to PURCHASE a VW timing belt tensioner tool!
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3 928s,

[My924gtc]

Tim I don't want to sound like a jerk but please take the Lizard up on his offer to help you out. You are lucky enough to live close to one of the best resources on this board and you are having a pretty hard time with this operation.

The best way to learn how to do things right is to have someone who knows what they are doing help you out. We have ALL had to learn from someone. I promise it will be more fun and less irritation to have some help. Even if you only use him to hand you tools, like a nurse in the OR while you, the doctor, perform your surgery.

If I were over that way I'd have him come over all the time to help me out. Not because I need him to just to have the company of a good wrench and maybe a good friend.
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MJ
'81 924 2.0L T
'82 924 2.3L SC/EFI <---online fall '06

Sponsor of the 944 Cup and Super Cup
Sponsor of the "2006 Battle in the Badlands"

[AznDrgn]

Bruce Arnn makes tools and I think the tensioner tool he has for the 944 balance shafts will fit the 924 tensioner and it's not all that expensive. Check it out at www.arnnworx.com
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-'87 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 6" of lift 33" Super Swampers

-'83 Callaway 944 2.5L turbo, 300HP, 1 of 42 ever made

[Joes924Racer]

I use a big crescent wrench to get the big bolt attached to the tensioner
to go intension then I snug down the bolt that goes into the head.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

[timstar92404]

so if the pulleys (bottom and top) are not alligned exactly say one tooth off it won't run? or run very rough?


the top mark looked pretty much on the mark but I had to move it a bit to get the belt ot tension on the lon side before the tensioner is put on.


I got the tensioner to tension with the help smoothie gave me. thanks.

I used two nails and a screw driver between them and it work fine.

I tesnsioned the belt and its on right now.

I just need to get the vbelt on then I can try and start it up......


due the marks have to allign like exactly or is a few mm off ok? its pretty hard to tell if it is on the spot exactly.....

I haven't even check the crankshaft marks yet...

I will probably take the ension of and check the cranshaft marks....

I'm not really sure where the marks are on the cranshaft to check them....

plus I don't have jackstands to lift the car to see it right....


but like I said I had to move the top pulley about half a tooth counter clockwise to get the belt to get on right..... so the bottom pulley is probably at least a half tooth off or more.




The reason i"m taking so long to do this water pump and timing belt job is because I barely have time to work on it... my water pump is done (not sure if the sealant is proper) and my car was just sitting for a week until i had an hour today to try and put the timing belt on.

I'm just really busy with college and work barely have time ot fix my car.

schools over in 4 weeks then I got alot of time to work on my car.
_________________
78 924 sold.
85.5 944

[timstar92404]

[timstar92404]

Maybe tom I'll go buy a battery / put on the vbelt and put some gas in and try and start the car......

i'm just hoping it will start fine....

the bottom pulley might by half a tooth off because I had to move the top pulley about half a tooth I think to get the belt on tensioned with the teth on the gears.
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78 924 sold.
85.5 944

[Smoothie]

The timing marks for both toothed sprockets have to be lined-up. If you only line-up the cam sprocket mark and don't have the crankshaft mark lined-up, then it's all meaningless. The crank has marks in 2 different places that can be checked - one set is on the front (a notch on the large pulley that carries the v-belt/s and pointer on the oil pump (if you can find them (pic link below))) - the other place to check more accurately is the TDC mark on the flywheel that's visible through the window on the bellhousing at the rear of the engine.
-And just to verify... for the camshaft sprocket (large wheel), you line-up the pointer on the valve cover with the mark that's located at the valley between two teeth on the back of the wheel (there may be another mark right on a tooth - that would be the wrong one).

From my own experience, the marks don't line-up -exactly- and you'll probably find they're ~1/2 tooth off with the belt on and tensioned with the timing marks lined-up correctly. Then if you're picky like me, this'll leave you wondering, "which side do you leave the 1/2 tooth slack on?". I've never seen the question addressed in the manuals, so by my own application of what I claim passes for logic, I leave the long run of the belt 1/2 tooth short. The thinking is that if/as the belt stretches over time, the marks will come closer to aligning with their marks instead of moving farther apart.

Front crankshaft timing marks (tough to see, so they're circled) -
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

[timstar92404]

thanks for the help smoothie

but I barely know anything ... so the part about the flywheel I don't understand at all right now.. not that you didnt' explain it good .

the oild pump mark martching with teh pulley I may be able to check but it will be pretty hard to check under there maybe impossible without jacks, I dont' have jacks. I can just try and look at it from top with light shinning on it.

but even if I see the mark in that tight sppot it will be pretty hard to get the marks to match exactly. It should already be pretty close becaues I turned the engine by the cranshaft untilt he mark on the camshaft and pointer matched as best as I could get iit too then I removed the belt.


but when I tried to tension the new timing belt the long side of the belt wasn't tensioned when I got the belt on necause when I got the belt on the cranshaft timing belt pulley and I was pulling it to get the teeth ont he camshaft pulley it wouldn't go on the teeth to make it more tense, it was a half tooth (on belt) offso I moved the camshaft pulley about half a tooth counter clockwise an then the belt teeth got on the pulley and made the laong side tense (before tensioner)

thats why I though it would probably work. but now i'm worrying because I read that if the marks are off by one toot the engien won't run or will ping like crazy. I don't really want to o this 2 times.....


so if it starts and doesn't make loud pinging noises and doesn't stll then its fine to leave it like that even if the marks aren't perfect?
_________________
78 924 sold.
85.5 944

[Paul]

[Smoothie]