924Board.org

[rdudejr]

Hey guys,

I was poking around on ebay today and found this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-85-87-924s-944-Performance-Racing-Chip_W0QQitemZ8000673040QQcategoryZ33597QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

are these things safe? Effective? Anyone ever tried one, or is using one?
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There are 10 people in the world, those who understand binary and those who dont.

Linux - Development
Mac - Productivity
Windows - Solitaire

[chasoncows]

kinda cool. my guess is that it probably does something. maybe less mpg? a few hp? who knows? upping the rev limit is really cool though.
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1988 924s

[81turbo]

[24stiffy]

Personally, I would stay away.
If you are looking for a chip, try FR Wilk
I've heard nothing but good things...
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I have solid torsion mounts available...

[Hoss Ghoul]

Those cheap chips on Ebay are most likely copies of the more expensive FRWilks, or Autothority, etc chips.

I haven't heard anyting specifically bad about those and believe that a few people over on the Pelican Parts boards have tried them. Do a search there.

The FRWilks chip is highly recommended as is the Autothority.
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1987 924S
2000 Z/28

[Techno Duck]

Generally raising the rev limit is not a good idea, i besides i wouldnt want to venture much farther than 6500rpms on a regular basis.

I have the FRWilk chip on my '87 944. Best $200 you can spend on a performance upgrade for the engine i think. That and maybe a throttle cam. You will feel the difference that the chip makes imediatley. You no longer get that dead spot on the powerband in mid RPM's, it pulls smoothly all the way up to redline. I would rather spend the extra money on FRWilk's chip as you really dont know what your getting with the eBay chip.

Defenetley do not believe any of the HP or TQ claims that they list. Any of the chips will get you at most 2-3 peak HP. Someone dynoed the FRWilk chip, and i believe the increase in HP was marginal at something like 2-4hp. But it was obvious to see the difference in the powerband. I will look around and try to find those dyno charts.

Edit - Here are the charts, disregard the HP numbers when you look at these, its more imporant to look at the power curve, you can see how much of a difference it is, especially around the 3k rpm area.




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1987 Zermatt Silver Porsche 924S <-- Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red Porsche 944 <-- Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red Porsche 951 <-- Das Boost

[Matt Norton]

Yah I was looking at these $40 racing chips too and was wondering the same thing. I ask a racing tech
friend of mine about chips in general and he told me it was a waste of money and generally discourages
his customers from going that rout. He said I would be better off replacing my air filter with a standard K
& N air filter replacement (not a cone air filter that will draw hot air into the engine) I have found I do
get better gas mileage with high octane gas with the standard set up and octane boost dose make the car
accelerate quicker. I like the idea of smoothing out that dead spot even if I don't gain HP but I am not
wild about messing with sodering. Is that something most garages are comfortable with doing?
I also considered those oxygen sensor plug in upgrades for under 30 dollars http://cgi.ebay.com/
ebaymotors/20HP-O2-SENSOR-PERFORMANCE-CHIP-PORSCHE-924S-944-
968_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42611QQihZ001QQitemZ110112578743QQrdZ1QQsspagename
ZWDVW any one try these or similar devices? wouldn’t this bring US car more inline with the European
models?
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Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[-nick]

Sorry to say, but all that junk is... junk.

A k&n will allow you to clean your filter with oil instead of buying a new one. That's it.

A purpose-built chip could tweak the timing and fueling very slightly and increase performance marginally - which it looks like the Wilk chip does a good job at.

I didn't check the o2 sensor link, but I'll guess that there is some $0.02 resistor inline that drops the voltage and makes the car run richer. This will do a great job in decreasing your gas mileage. That's it.

Octane booster does absolutely nothing. In fact, you may get worse performance as you're slowing the burn time of the fuel. It would be the same as retarding your ignition. Use the fuel listed in your owner's manual - probably 87 octane (US) for the '87 model, and maybe 89 octane for the higher-compression '88 model. High octane does a great job at making you spend money for no reason.

I'm not aware that the RoW 924S's got an performance boost from the US cars. Therefore, you _have_ Euro performance!

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
_________________
1980 931S
15psi boost, MS-II, EDIS, 951 IC, custom intake, Ford 5.0L throttle body, Forge BOV, WB o2, G31 w/LSD, 964 wheels, 968 rear sway, Bilsteins, 200# Welt. springs. A laptop, and a partridge in a pear tree.
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet

[dash16]

my manual for the 87 924s definitely saids 91 RON octane.
_________________
1987 Porsche 924S Black/Black. 5-spd.
Options: AFX C79 261 398 423 650 651 657

1987 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 Cosworth Pearl Black/Black. 5-spd.

STUTTGART PREVAILS

[Rasta Monsta]

Disagree on the K&N issue. . .they definitely flow better.
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[dash16]

[Cone_Eater]

A K&N cold air intake will help some but is not a 20hp gain. As with the chip, it may help a bit but the factory spent hundreds of thousands designing these cars so I think if it was that easy they would have thought of it. By doing some of them you will add a little power but no huge amount. If you do a good exhaust, chip, intake (not a cone just bolted to the mass airflow!!!!) you will most likely add a little power, probably about 10-15hp total. You can't go wrong with making the car breath better so don't get discouraged. Eventually if you do enough small things then you will have a substantial amount of added power. The more you spend the more it pays off in the long run. The previous parts installed will start helping out more as new ones are added. I am using a "weltmeister" chip, with a K&N cold air intake, and an exhaust. I have no complains. If you want a little more power you can't go wrong with adding a chip and helping it breath, but don't expect unrealistic hp gains. In the long run they will help. Even with economy.
As a general rule: to make more power you are sacrificing reliability.
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1988 924S: Koni fully adjustables, Short shift kit, head work, exhaust, K&N, Jacobs ignition, Larger Injectors, Performance Chip, 928 wheels with cooper Zeon tires, Momo interior, Etc.....
If its fast enough to go... its fast enough to blow.

[mhart]

[Cone_Eater]

The key to power is the air to fuel ratio! To make good power everything has to match. More fuel isn't gonna help if the ignition system can't burn it and their isn't enough air to make a decent explosion. Their is a reason why the first thing people think of in an air-intake or even filter is K&N, cause they work. The negative affects are that they don't filter as well but regardless they let more air in easier.
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1988 924S: Koni fully adjustables, Short shift kit, head work, exhaust, K&N, Jacobs ignition, Larger Injectors, Performance Chip, 928 wheels with cooper Zeon tires, Momo interior, Etc.....
If its fast enough to go... its fast enough to blow.

[-nick]

Oh boy.

K&N - does it flow more than the stock filter? Yes. Does your stock 2.5L care? No. The stock filter has way more than enough area to flow as much air as a stock 2.5L making ~160hp will ever need. Pat Porsche on the back, they did a good job. I'm sure there are plenty of other car models that either didn't have the physical space for a large enough filter or it wasn't deemed as important. In those cases, a K&N will make a difference.

You can disagree, but you need to have a reason for it, other than "it flows more".

"Octane boosters" will never, ever, make a difference. In fact, it doesn't even make a difference in the octane of the fuel. Think about it, you're dumping 12 ounces of 104 octane into a 14 gallon fuel tank of XX octane. It's a marketing scam. At best, you'll raise your 86 octane pump gas to 87.

Air/fuel ratio has some effect on power, but not nearly as much as timing. More fuel, by itself, does not generate much more power. Chips advance timing. That's where the power comes from. More timing leads to detonation which can require a higher octane. A chip that modifies fueling only will likely just run richer under power, and you'll only notice worse consumption (unless the factory AFRs are WAY off). A richer mix actually reduces the chances of detonation; you'll never need to raise the octane based on an AFR change.

There is no "adjusting the fuel map to the burn characteristics of octane". You just advance the timing and use an octane high enough that it won't ping.

Higher octane fuel contains no more energy than lower octane. It just has a higher ignition point and burns more slowly. That's the only role of octane.

Also, there is no "explosion" inside your engine! There is a flame kernel that creates pressure. Detonation is more akin to an explosion.

RON is the Euro fuel standard, we use (RON+MON)/2 in the states. The numbers are not equal. 91 RON is something like 87 (r+m)/2 octane.

If you want proof that none of these bolt on items work, just look at 944 spec car dyno charts.

There is no rule that making power sacrifices reliability. You could run to lean misfires and have cylinder temps through the roof which would bring the power way down. Or overly retarded or advanced ignition that brings down power and raises temps.

The generalizations in the posts above are bad bad bad!

I stand corrected on the '87 Euro.

Phew, glad we cleared that up
_________________
1980 931S
15psi boost, MS-II, EDIS, 951 IC, custom intake, Ford 5.0L throttle body, Forge BOV, WB o2, G31 w/LSD, 964 wheels, 968 rear sway, Bilsteins, 200# Welt. springs. A laptop, and a partridge in a pear tree.
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet