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sgloki · Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 53 Location: Bellingham, WA

So I was trying to get the old girl to fire up today, she has sat a long time and I had just got some of the old bad gas out and some new good gas in...

I have cranked it over quite a few times and managed to drive it a few miles to get it home without new gas a few weeks ago.

The starter wouldn't turn the engine over so I suspected it may have frozen up. I pulled the timing belt and turned the crank to TDC...no problem.

Then I tried to turn the bottom end and it is STUUUUUUCK. I didn't want to risk breaking the bolt off the pulley so I let it be.

What do you guys think?...spun bearing from lack of lubricating while cranking???? any other ideas?

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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

Ozzie · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:51 am Post subject:

what motor? turbo? NA? 2.5lt? 2lt?
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Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
Engineer of Electro/Mechanical Systems Maintenance

macBdog · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:56 am Post subject:

If you pulled the timing belt off then tried to spin the crank then you might have been trying to mash the pistons into the open valves.

Provided its a turbo motor...
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Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

Hydrolocked from a cylinder full of fuel?
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WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

emoore924 · Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 2822

Ok, not sure of your expertise so let's get to some common terminology.

this assumes early 924, not an S...

The crank is at the bottom of the engine and you turn it with a big wrench on the center nut at the front in the middle of the big pulley. The cam is at the top of the motor and you turn it with a wrench on the cam gear. However, you usually turn the cam via the belt via the crank pulley.

For a turbo, do NOT remove the cam belt and try to turn the cam using the cam bolt (on the gear), and if the belt is off, do NOT turn the bottom end with the crank bolt unless you know the cam is at TDC (top dead center) and all the valves are closed or you will bend valves.

Need more info from you but you could be hydro lock from fuel or water in the cylinder. Remove the plugs and turn the motor over by hand (following the instructions above, of course...). If water/fuel squirts out of one of the holes, there ya go. You'll need to do more diagnostics to know head gasket, cracked head, or cracked block, but at least you'll be on your way..., otherwise, post more info and we can go from there.

sgloki · Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 53 Location: Bellingham, WA

Oh yes my mistake, I forgot I don't have a signature with my car inm it on this forum...

It is a early 924, a 77 non turbo with a 2.0l audi 100 block. I'll pull the spark plugs and see if it is hydro locked.

I do know enough to not mash my valves, I love 8V VW blocks for a reason...and that is the main reason, the 16's and turbos beg to break.
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

sgloki · Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 53 Location: Bellingham, WA

O.k. I tried pulling all the spark plugs and the crankshaft refuses to turn either with the starter or by hand with a wrench. I do have the timing belt removed to eliminate any other resistance and the V pulley belt is loose enough to not interfere with the crankshaft in the event of any other accesories being siezed up.

What next?

EDIT: I am not sure if the starter being stuck engaged would cause this to not turn, I am under the impression with the amount of torque I can apply by hand it would still turn the starter even if it were stuck. Spun crankshaft bearings maybe?
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

Ozzie · Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:42 am Post subject:

The 2 litre non turbo motor is non inteference in standard mode.
So you wont be mashing valves.

If the plugs are removed and it still dont turn then a spun journal is likely.
_________________
Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
Engineer of Electro/Mechanical Systems Maintenance

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

Remove the starter and try again.
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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

zedex · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 26 Location: British Columbia

It may sound dumb or even insulting, but.......

Is the car in gear?? Moreso, in gear with parking brake applied?

Like I said, it sounds like something a novice would do, but I have seen it done before.
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sgloki · Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 53 Location: Bellingham, WA

no insult taken... not in gear at all. I sprayed a ton of penetrating oil on the pistons to make sure that isn't the issue...

Out the starter comes when I get a day off work.
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

zedex · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 26 Location: British Columbia

Glad you didn't take insult to that. The reason I mentioned that was I had one guy in my shop that was working on a "tow-in".

The car was brought in because of a no start condition, but the engine would turn over via starter and a quick check indicated a broken/stripped timing belt. After removing everything to replace the belt, he tried to turn the crank to position and it wouldn't budge. Figuring a hung starter, he removed that, still not able to turn.

So, then, he thinks maybe a valve broke off and is wedged in the cylinder, so off comes the head. No valve.

By now, he is ready to pound his head on the wall. He comes and get me out of my office to look it over to see if he is missing something. The other guys had already looked and couldn't find anything, either.

After looking it over and not seeing anything, I had him reinstall the starter since we knew it would turn the engine. After reinstalling it, he comes and gets me. I climb into the car and as I am about to turn it over, I noticed the car is in first gear and parking brake is on. I pulled it into neutral and had him try to turn the crank. Sure enough, it spins freely.

Too bad he didn't think of that before disassembling the engine. { This is alos the same guy that loved to come into the office with his famous line "we have a problem" } He didn't last very long.
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You get more with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone--Al Capone

sgloki · Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 53 Location: Bellingham, WA

LMAO... that is pretty funny...well not so funny for the guy who hired him.

I have done my share of working on cars, mostly VW's but I've done a bit of every kind of car common to the u.s.

I haven't rebuilt any engines yet, but I've dropped a few in and pulled a few out, done tons of electrical, suspension, brakes etc... so if I do have to rebuild the bottom end I shouldn't have any major issues reading the haynes.

Now if only I had a shop...or a garage... this outside an apartment complex wrench work has to stop.

Still haven't had a shot at pulling the starter and checking that out, I sure hope thats the problem, doesn't seem like it should have spun a bearing after just cranking it over with bad gas in it a few times... maybe the oil pump is shot too.
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.

924RACR · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject:

Yeah, those really shouldn't keep it from turning, coming from a running state...
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sgloki · Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 53 Location: Bellingham, WA

well, it did run when I drove it home, then it wouldn't fire up. So fare the reasons it wouldn't fire that I have discovered were:

A: bad electrical connections at the fuse block, a jiggle here and a wiggle there and it would turn over before this.

B: the timing belt had slipped on the trip here.

C: the gasoline was amazingly nasty, it was pretty much varnish and I'm amazed it ran on that crud at all.

So it WAS running, and after flushing the fuel I tried to crank it over (yet again.) and it just stoped cranking, I figured the battery was low because it was, put even more fresh gas in and a fresh battery and discovered that when it stopped cranking it was because something siezed the crankshaft.
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All work and no speeding makes jack a dull boy.