924Board.org

[Kroggers]

I know I have not posted here much, and my 924 project is taking a long time now when I have my little boy to look after as well - I love being a father
But I am interested to understand the general 924 community and the need for Performance Parts. I run a small company who deals with performance parts, and to date predominantly for the 911. We have recently changed direction from just selling to also manufacturing. And I am wondering if there is a market out there fore high quality after-market performance parts for the 924.

If we were to put some effort into developing and fabricating parts for the 924, would we get customers? And I figure this must be the best place to ask...

i have some ides on how we could help each other, but I thought I would start by asking the basic questions first.
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Kroggers
CoolCavaRacing.com

1983 924 (aka Scruffy)
1978 911SC (aka Wanda)

[924guy]

I suppose it depends entirely on what parts your considering.. you wont get rich off us 924 folk, were generally cheap skates.. But, more and more parts for our cars are becoming nla... and i think there is opportunity there for someone with the means and distribution abilities to fill that niche. and it should provide a small, but fairly steady income. for the early cars, clutch cable end links (aka threaded eyes), made of aluminum instead of plastic, short shift kits , valve springs, even performance engine rebuild kits. same thing for the late cars, ignition upgrades, etc..
If it can be pulled off a parts car, you wouldnt sell many, but the upgraded parts and consumables, theres potential there..
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Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[Chrenan]

You might have better luck with parts required to keep the cars on the road, as opposed to upgrade parts. For example, oil pump pressure springs, main bearings, valve springs are a few of the items we've discovered are no longer available. As time goes by, this problem will become more common. If you become "the guy" who produces NLA parts for the 924, you may make some good income.

As for performance parts, I have been involved in one group buy through this board. It was a failure, so few people took part that there was essentially no discount. So, I wasted time waiting for other people to get their act together, and got no discount as a reward.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

[ideola]

My personal opinion is that the market is not big enough to sustain a business. I don't know how much correlation we can draw, but think about these facts: I'll go out on a limb and suggest that there is a high likelihood that anyone seriously interested in the 924 would have shown up here at one point or another. As of today, there are 3634 registered users, but of those, less than 10% (280 to be exact) have more than 100 posts. So even if there are 400-500 people worldwide that would at some point invest in performance mods, that is a pretty darn small market. Now factor in the manufacturing costs, marketing costs, the cost of carrying inventory that could sit on the shelf for years, the cost of returns and customer support, on and on...

I just don't think it's viable from a business perspective. It might be viable as a supplement to an existing line that is much more robust such as 944/968, 928, or even modern 911/boxster/cayman. However, look how much trouble we've had getting well-established businesses to even consider purchasing 5 sets of rod bolts, a part that is completely NLA. Or main bearings. Those guys aren't stupid, and presumably, they know something about demand.

Cross-over products that work on the 924 and 944 would be the best bet. But unfortunately, that rules out almost anything having to do with the power plant. The suspension market is already really crowded, although there are a few gaps when it comes to some of the components. But here again, how many 924 owners are going to spend $2-$3K on their suspension setup? Or even $7-$8K like some of the high end race-oriented 944 stuff? My guess is probably well under 100 guys worldwide, and probably less than 10-20 customers per year. Hard to build a business case on those numbers. So you would effectively be going head to head with well-established vendors in the 944 space more so than providing stuff to the 924 community.

Don't mean to be pessimistic...I've been evaluating this myself for at least 3 years. While my emotional side would love to see it happen, and would love to think it would be sustainable, my rational side tells me it's probably an extremely difficult proposition at best.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[Kroggers]

I think what you both have said is close to the assumption we had already made. There is not many out there who are looking to spend money on their 924 past keeping it on the road and making some moderate improvements.

Our principle is to develop and make high quality parts at a realistic price for a car that has a high premium associated with it - or as it is better known, the Porsche Tax!

I am keen to go in directions that the main (big) companies are not taking. So not looking for a "get rich" approach from the 924, but more a fair deal. I like the idea with NLA, how about improving on parts that are available and making them the same or lower cost that Porsche original?

Here is what I can offer as a suggestion. If it is worth it or not will be demonstrated by you all I suppose. Give us ideas on what to make for the 924. If we decide it is cost-effective and worth the effort, then we will include you in the development and let you test the prototypes etc. And this the trade off - we would need the old parts that we are making a replacement for, but in return you get a new (and I hope) improved part to replace it. At the end if you like the end prototype, you can keep it. depending on the overall development cost we might ask for you to pay for part of the materials used, but in general, you get to keep it for free.

What do you think?
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Kroggers
CoolCavaRacing.com

1983 924 (aka Scruffy)
1978 911SC (aka Wanda)

[Rasta Monsta]

You could immensely help us out by calling Cometic and ordering 100 head gaskets from them.

40-50 would sell immediately, and you would have good will around here that would last a lifetime.
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Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[ideola]

I would be happy to participate in such an arrangement. I think there are at least 3 or 4 good suggestions for places to start in the above posts. Another one that's been discussed before is an improved elbow for the cam oil tube. I'm sure there are more...

...just don't forget, there will always be guys that will want YOU to bear the testing burden...as in, "I'm not risking my engine with your unproven cam oil tube elbow." I've seen a lot of that around here...
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[Kroggers]

[Kroggers]

[ideola]

Cam oil tube elbow is easy, you just order one from your local Porsche parts reseller. Much cheaper to do that than for someone here in the US to ship one over to Sweden.

Oil pump spring and valve springs, I have spares. Can you do springs? If so, this might be worth pursuing, and I'd be willing to ship spares over.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[Rich H]

Plenty of 24's being broken in the UK, check e-bay.co.uk!
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1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress...
1980 Porsche 924 S2 DITC Turbo - Original spec
1978 Homo-Sapiens - Tired spec
1953 Landrover S1 - Pensioner Spec

[PORSCHEV]

What kind of performance parts are able to make?

Can you make a header? Have it coated?
Could you make a piston?
Supercharger kit?

All depends what your company is able to come up with.....
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1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.

[9xx]

[Kroggers]

We have to remember there is a point where the cost to develop makes it not worth doing, so the bigger and more complicated the part is, the bigger the chance is that we will not consider it - if we spend time to make a part that only one person will purchase, then it is not much point. I completely agree that there are old cars where you can get replacement parts. So again, why bother.

Additionally, if we take the example of what PORSCEV lists, why should we make a supercharger when there are already companies out there who make them. For us it would be more interesting to make the additional components required to mount the charger.

Our starting point is to look at what is on the car today and could be improved - in some situations, just making a replacement part from Aluminium or Stainless Steel so it will not rust is a great improvement. On other components Porsche might have made compromises to allow for the component to be used in as many applications as possible.

So, lets make this easy - remove the Performance aspect, and look at what you wish Porsche had made better for your car and we start a list. It is very possible that there is nothing and then the discussion ends here. I for one plan to look into making some improvements when I get back to my 924 during the summer - Things like shock mounts, drop links, shifter bushings and linkage. And I will probably find other things as well. I just thought I would not narrow the field down to just my car - after all you all have spent much more time with your 924 than I have with mine. We already have a nice list of parts for the 911 we are working on so I still have projects to keep us happy

I am not so keen to start developing a lot of internal engine components, as there are already a lot of companies out there who do that. Yes, we can do it - and my partner is looking to make his own pistons for his personal 911 project.

BTW, ideola, the company is based in England, it is just me that lives in Sweden - not that it actually is very important....
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Kroggers
CoolCavaRacing.com

1983 924 (aka Scruffy)
1978 911SC (aka Wanda)

[Kroggers]